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cubail
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Re: opening book vs experience file

Post by cubail »

DRAGON-7, Blitz 2.0min+1.0sec 4 core frıtz17 gui syzgyz 6 man Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2690 0 @ 2.90GHz play 200 games

1 2 3 4 5
1 AI 27.0_ad9b x64m ** 0.0/0 0.00 ---5.8 mb expencıve file play
2 SpecTral GNX 2.40_m ** 0.0/0 0.00 ---6.6 mb expencıve file play
3 RapTora 2.2-modern ** 0.0/0 0.00 ---5.9 mb expencıve file play
4 EMAN 8.91 64-bit SSE41,POPCNT ** 0.0/0 0.00 ---1.5 gb expencıve file play
5 EMAN 8.91 64-bit SSE41,POPCNTa ** 0.0/0 0.00 ---HCanFree-Upd.bin
test start

DRAGON-7, Blitz 2.0min+1.0sec 2023

1 2 3 4 5
1 RapTora 2.2-modern 0.5 - 0.5** 0.5/1 0.25
2 AI 27.0_ad9b x64m 0.5 - 0.5 ** 0.5/1 0.25
3 EMAN 8.91 64-bit SSE41,POPCNT 0.5 - 0.5 ** 0.5/1 0.25
4 EMAN 8.91 64-bit SSE41,POPCNTa 0.5 - 0.5 ** 0.5/1 0.25
5 SpecTral GNX 2.40_m ** 0.0/0
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Anton101
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Location: México

Re: opening book vs experience file

Post by Anton101 »

Nice!

Many thanks!
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deeds
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Re: opening book vs experience file

Post by deeds »

hardware : dual xeon e5-2660v3
software : cutechess 1.2.0
settings : TC 60s+1s, 40 threads, hash 4096 MB, partial syzygy 7men

Opening list : 20 first legal moves

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_190623.exp (Eman 8.40)    :      18     81    21.0      40  52.5    2   38    0  95.0       0     1
   2 hcanfree-upd.bin (Eman 8.40)     :       0   ----    19.0      40  47.5    0   38    2  95.0      18     1

White advantage = -17.58 +/- 41.39
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00
link : games
pass : 59Ef9tOGT1RCBGYgpMTuzw
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deeds
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pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

pawn-value based experience file : experience data purely trained by Eman engine until 8.40 release (before Nov 5, 2022 patch)

hardware : dual xeon e5-2660v3
software : cutechess-gui 1.2.0
settings : TC 60s+1s, 40 threads, hash 4096 MB, partial syzygy 7men

Opening list : startpos

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :       0     49    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 25.05
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : GHPPN's 15 most popular openings (Solista-010722's Opening Rate : 93%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :       0     92    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 46.89
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : 20 first legal moves (Solista-010722's Opening Rate : 40%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :       9     81    20.5      40  51.3    2   37    1  92.5       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----    19.5      40  48.8    1   37    2  92.5       9     1

White advantage = -26.35 +/- 40.96
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Albert Silver's 25 gambit suit (Solista-010722's Opening Rate : 0%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :      42     70    28.0      50  56.0   11   34    5  68.0       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----    22.0      50  44.0    5   34   11  68.0      42     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 35.28
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Jeroen Noomen's 50 tcec season 22 superfinal openings (Solista-010722's Opening Rate : 0%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :     108     54    64.0     100  64.0   29   70    1  70.0       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----    36.0     100  36.0    1   70   29  70.0     108     1

White advantage = 93.99 +/- 27.21
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00
link : games
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deeds
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Re: pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

Overall :

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                            :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_050522.exp (Eman 8.10)     :      39     27   177.5     320  55.5   42  271    7  84.7       0     1
   2 Solista-010722.bin (Eman 8.10)    :       0   ----   142.5     320  44.5    7  271   42  84.7      39     1

White advantage = 23.31 +/- 13.36
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Code: Select all

002 players                : avg. D33, 002 099 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 030 569 moves

depth4_050522 (eman 8.10)  : avg. D33, 001 930 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 016 795 moves
solista-010722 (eman 8.10) : avg. D34, 002 305 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 013 774 moves

Averages :
0 201 sec/game (3 min/game)
113 plies/game (096 played plies/game)

Game stages :
- opening @ avg. D27, 002 950 ms/move
- middleg @ avg. D31, 001 995 ms/move
- endgame @ avg. D42, 001 367 ms/move
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deeds
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Re: pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

pawn-value based experience file : experience data purely trained by Eman engine until 8.40 release (before Nov 5, 2022 patch)

hardware : dual xeon e5-2660v3
software : cutechess-gui 1.2.0
settings : TC 60s+1s, 40 threads, hash 4096 MB, partial syzygy 7men

Opening list : startpos

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :       0     49    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 25.05
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : GHPPN's 15 most popular openings (Hubble 3.1's Opening Rate : 100%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :       0     92    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 46.89
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : 20 first legal moves (Hubble 3.1's Opening Rate : 60%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :      36     82    22.0      40  55.0    5   34    1  85.0       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    18.0      40  45.0    1   34    5  85.0      36     1

White advantage = -35.52 +/- 41.80
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Albert Silver's 25 gambit suit (Hubble 3.1's Opening Rate : 16%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :      28     69    27.0      50  54.0    9   36    5  72.0       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    23.0      50  46.0    5   36    9  72.0      28     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 35.52
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Jeroen Noomen's 50 tcec season 22 superfinal openings (Hubble 3.1's Opening Rate : 0%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :     103     53    63.5     100  63.5   29   69    2  69.0       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    36.5     100  36.5    2   69   29  69.0     103     1

White advantage = 89.28 +/- 26.91
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00
link : games
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deeds
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Re: pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

Overall :

Code: Select all


   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :      39     27   177.5     320  55.5   43  269    8  84.1       0     1
   2 Hubble 3.1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----   142.5     320  44.5    8  269   43  84.1      39     1

White advantage = 21.09 +/- 13.34
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Code: Select all

002 players               : avg. D32, 002 211 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 030 239 moves

depth4_031222 (eman 8.30) : avg. D32, 002 016 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 016 619 moves
hubble 3.1 (eman 8.30)    : avg. D33, 002 449 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 013 620 moves

Averages :
0 209 sec/game (3 min/game)
112 plies/game (094 played plies/game)

Game stages :
- opening @ avg. D27, 003 320 ms/move
- middleg @ avg. D30, 001 980 ms/move
- endgame @ avg. D40, 001 371 ms/move
Last edited by deeds on Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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deeds
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Re: pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

pawn-value based experience file : experience data purely trained by Eman engine until 8.40 release (before Nov 5, 2022 patch)

hardware : dual xeon e5-2660v3
software : cutechess-gui 1.2.0
settings : TC 60s+1s, 40 threads, hash 4096 MB, partial syzygy 7men

Opening list : startpos

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :       0     49    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    50.0     100  50.0    0  100    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 25.05
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : GHPPN's 15 most popular openings (Mantis-DH1's Opening Rate : 47%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L   D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :       0     92    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    15.0      30  50.0    0   30    0  100.0       0     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 46.89
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : 20 first legal moves (Mantis-DH1's Opening Rate : 55%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :       0     81    20.0      40  50.0    1   38    1  95.0       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    20.0      40  50.0    1   38    1  95.0       0     1

White advantage = -17.54 +/- 41.09
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Albert Silver's 25 gambit suit (Mantis-DH1's Opening Rate : 12%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :      42     70    28.0      50  56.0   10   36    4  72.0       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    22.0      50  44.0    4   36   10  72.0      42     1

White advantage = 0.00 +/- 35.28
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Opening list : Jeroen Noomen's 50 tcec season 22 superfinal openings (Mantis-DH1's Opening Rate : 2%)

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :     105     54    63.5     100  63.5   29   69    2  69.0       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----    36.5     100  36.5    2   69   29  69.0     105     1

White advantage = 97.49 +/- 27.18
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00
link : games
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deeds
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Re: pawn-value based exp file vs polyglot bin book

Post by deeds »

Overall :

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER                           :  RATING  ERROR  POINTS  PLAYED   (%)    W    D    L  D(%)  OppAvg  OppN
   1 Depth4_031222.exp (Eman 8.30)    :      36     27   176.5     320  55.2   40  273    7  85.3       0     1
   2 Mantis-DH1.bin (Eman 8.30)       :       0   ----   143.5     320  44.8    7  273   40  85.3      36     1

White advantage = 25.51 +/- 13.39
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00

Code: Select all

002 players               : avg. D33, 002 212 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 030 503 moves

depth4_031222 (eman 8.30) : avg. D32, 001 991 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 016 980 moves
mantis-dh1 (eman 8.30)    : avg. D34, 002 490 ms/move, 000 320 games, 00 013 523 moves

Averages :
0 211 sec/game (4 min/game)
114 plies/game (095 played plies/game)

Game stages :
- opening @ avg. D28, 003 704 ms/move
- middleg @ avg. D30, 001 740 ms/move
- endgame @ avg. D40, 001 236 ms/move
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deeds
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Re: opening book vs experience file

Post by deeds »

cubail wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:43 pm Image
Until Eman 8.40, the experience data contained "pawn-value" based scores.
Since Eman 8.50, the experience data contains "WDL-model" based scores.

With an experience file which contains mixed scores, it's like a merged experience file from foreign engines => the hash of the engine is polluted => the strength of the engine is reduced => unfair conditions on tourney !

The "pawn-value" based scores are higher than "WDL-model" based scores => the learning thresholds are no longer respected => wrong training settings !

All engine trainers can confirm this.
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