OpenChess

ThinkingALot wrote:

kingliveson wrote:Robert started Houdini from GPL RobboLito version put out by Norm and Milos.

We don't know for sure

ThinkingALot wrote:

Prima wrote:Then WHY did RH go after a [GPL] refined Robbolito 0.085g3 and not stick with 0.085d3 that was Public Domain and free of any legal obligations/compliance?

Probably simple recklessness if this is indeed the case.

Prima wrote:What Kranium & Sentinel did was not trivial

ThinkingALot wrote:Trivial is too strong a word. Simple fits it better.
I noticed some guys on CCC believing the translation to be a great accomplishment (for example: "Here Norman and Milos did a huge translation job and made the free Robbolito source code understandable in English", Ed Shroder, http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47073). Well, this is how it is done. You just pick the source files one by one (starting with headers), look for Italian words, pick one, open the quick replace dialog in visual studio, look up the word translation using Google Translate, pick the best fitting translation, click the "Replace All" button. As you progress through the files it becomes easier to understand the code. I was half through the process myself when Kranium's version appeared. My estimate is 2h-4h for the entire translation. And this translation is already present in 0.85d3.
Btw, bugfixing and porting to Windows was probably done by Yuri Osipov. I managed to google this: "RobboLito RobboLito 0.084 x86 sources and exe for Windows by Y.Osipov" (from a post on immortal forum).

Prima wrote:And again, I refer you to these 2 links exposing similarities between the GPL'ed RobboLito, v0.085g3, AND Houdini:

Robert Houdart evades such questions

ThinkingALot wrote:

Prima wrote:And again, I refer you to these 2 links exposing similarities between the GPL'ed RobboLito, v0.085g3, AND Houdini:

Stop applying faulty logic of a five year old. "A is similar to B" doesn't imply "A is a derivative of B" since both A and B may be derivatives of C.

Prima wrote:Robert Houdart evades such questions

ThinkingALot wrote:What RH does is irrelevant here. We are discussing a simple question: was it proved that H1.03 is a derivative of 0.085g3? The answer is no. It may be likely but that's not sufficient to claim it 100% proven. To make such a claim you need to find a piece of code satisfying several conditions (http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php ... =20#p18301).

Without many ideas and techniques from the open source chess engines Ippolit and Stockfish, Houdini would not nearly be as strong as it is now.

Prima wrote:evidence presented showing Houdini to be a direct prodigy of [GPL]Robbolito 0.085g3

Prima wrote:so THAT becomes a faulty, childish logic.

Prima wrote:And these very facts have been accepted by the computer chess community.

To believe that RH just used IPPOLIT ideas which happened to produce exact pv outputs, ponder hits, move choice and analysis etc. is just being plain naive.

Besides yourself, have you found ANYONE else including programmers, refuting the evidence from the 2 links provided?

Prima wrote:Aren't all these phenomenal fiasco and discussions, occurring in internet foras, a direct result of WHAT Robert Houdart did/does, or the LACK thereof - in terms of proper attribution to authors of the GPL'ed Robbolito 0.085g3

ThinkingALot wrote:Btw, http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... =&start=20, jose mº velasco writes:
"With Visual Studio, take three or four hours to make a decent translation." Matches my estimate of 2h-4h.

Prima wrote:Aren't all these phenomenal fiasco and discussions, occurring in internet foras, a direct result of WHAT Robert Houdart did/does, or the LACK thereof - in terms of proper attribution to authors of the GPL'ed Robbolito 0.085g3

This "fiasco and discussions" are a great fun! If such a good show is inspired solely by RH, he has my thanks

ThinkingALot wrote:There's no such evidence. Can you list the differences between 0.085g3 and 0.085d3?

ThinkingALot wrote:No one believes so now. I abandoned this belief long ago when I checked the H1.5a disassembly with IDA.

Besides yourself, have you found ANYONE else including programmers, refuting the evidence from the 2 links provided?

ThinkingALot wrote:Sure. http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... =&start=20, Julien MARCEL (author of Prédateur) writes:
"Regarding Houdini, and IF Houdini started from public domain code, Robert Houdart did nothing illegal."
This IF indicates clearly the absense of 100% evidence to the contrary.

Jose, this is my last attempt to make you understand. If you take a public domain source code and make additions to it, you are totally free to place those additions under GPL. The resulting program will have parts that are public-domain, and parts that are covered with GPL.

Here's an example:

HelloLito:

Code:

Code: Select all

/* HelloLito is domain public code. Long live the revolution! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
}


HelloLito Extreme:



/* HelloLito is domain public code. Long live the revolution! */

/* HelloLito Extreme is released under GPL */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
    printf("I meant hellolito, world\n");
}

As I... and then the GPL FAQ told you, if you can distinguish in HelloLito Extreme which parts are GPLed (here, the second printf line) and which part are public domain, then you can make a private program with just the public domain parts and your own additions (but then it's simpler to start from HelloLito than from HelloLito Extreme, isn't it? Wink ). But if you start from HelloLito Extreme and keep the GPLed part, then your program will at least have to publish the parts of your program that were derived from the GPL parts of Hellolito Extreme.

For instance, let's imagine that someone decides to make a BouqueLito program:

Case 1: he starts from HelloLito:

Code:

Code: Select all

/* BouqueLito is not public domain code. Long live capitalism! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, greedy world\n");
    printf("I am the king of the florist!\n");
}

Fine, this is ok: HelloLito was public domain.

Case 2: he starts from HelloLito Extreme:

Code:

Code: Select all

/* BouqueLito is not public domain code. Long live capitalism! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
    printf("I meant Bouquelito, greedy world\n");
    printf("I am the king of the florist!\n");
}

Then he'd have to at least publish the part he derived from the GPLed parts of the source program. (Here printf("I meant Bouquelito, greedy world\n"); )
Then he would have to publish the part of his codes

velmarin wrote:jose, not kranium, o Prima,
Prima o kranium,
Monta tanto, tanto monta, dos idiotas como idiotas dos.

Monta therefore both mounted, like idiots two idiots two.