OpenChess

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2025 11:15 pm**

This book is generally used for fish testing: https://pixeldrain.com/u/2kBgYmHS

Here you can see where it comes from: https://github.com/official-stockfish/b ... a7f185c4b9

Here is an example of how the test is prepared, book depth, TC, hash, threads, etc: https://tests.stockfishchess.org/tests/ ... 2d74b1668a

Without a doubt, I understand that as a TD you have complete authority to decide what to do and what not to do in each test, however, one thing these people have taught us over time is to have created an almost invincible engine.

I don't have the computing power that you have or the tournament experience that you have, but I invite you to do this type of test at some point.

The final idea is to compare the results of the SF developers with your work and know the results obtained.

I can do a tour in fastchess, using cmd, but I don't have some engines.

Plus it will take me many hours to reach a thousand games per engine.

It's just an invitation, but in the end, you'll decide.

Best regards Mr. Sedat.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 7:08 am**

@ to Mr. Anton CES

Many thanks for your input...

As far as I understand,
Do you invite Me to be exactly 'in shoes' as SF team, right ?)

If so... I am afraid to say that
I can not adapt 100% SCCT exactly to SF team's testing conditions,
Since my tournament hardware is not exactly same as SF team..

Moreover, I always use Core/s (Hyper-Threading disabled) per engine!
The best testing system way, as most stable for my engine testings !

Where I assume SF team is using Thread/s (Hyper-Threading enabled)..

Besides, I noticed that UHO_Lichess_4852_v1 is EPD file, In short:
I am not a BIG fun of using Epd openings (in case of eng testings)
Due to produced games are not useful at all for creating books etc!

Anyhow, just out of curiosity...very soon
I will give a try via UHO_Lichess_4852_v1.epd as well!

And let's see what will be the 3rd tour's standings ?!

And please stay tuned..soon as possible new updates...

Greetings )

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 7:26 am**

UPDATE

Due to respect/wish to Mr. Anton CES's interesting idea,
The tour via 'UHO_Lichess_4852_v1' openings started !

And here are the first unofficial results, standings after 250+ games:

And as usually,
Kookaburra is 1st, Stockfish dev 2nd, where SF PRO2 190325 is 3rd!

But what is unusual ?
Omega MPV is last ? any ideas over these issues?
Btw, I know very well too that 250 games (per player) is small data but...

In other words,
You will never notice via well-tuned openings such mystery !

BUT ANYHOW, NEVER MIND,
AS MOST IMPORTANT FUN (at least for this tour)

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score    Draw 
   1 Kookaburra 3.10                34      30     253   54.9%   49.8% 
   2 Stockfish 020425               29      32     252   54.2%   45.6% 
   3 SF PRO2 190325                 21      31     252   53.0%   48.8% 
   4 Corchess 210325                14      31     251   52.0%   46.6% 
   5 SF-X 130425                    13      32     250   51.8%   44.4% 
   6 KillfishPB 110425              11      32     250   51.6%   44.8% 
   7 Artemis 12TR                    1      30     251   50.2%   51.0% 
   8 HypnoS++ 1.02                 -61      30     252   41.3%   50.8% 
   9 Omega MPV                     -63      31     251   41.0%   48.6% 

1131 of 4680 games finished.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 7:56 am**

UPDATE 2

And here are latest standings (after 550+ games per player)

Kookaburra leads as before, where Omega MPV is still last !!
Very strange really....normally HypnoS was as last in older tours..
It seems Omega MPV did not like/suit UHO_Lichess openings !?

On other hand,
The current produced draw ratio is incredible low...nice..but so far,
Determining the strength of overall chess engines is just a mystery!
Not so correct via 'UHO_Lichess openings' at least so far ...

And moreover,
I see these testings quite useful...otherwise without running them..
We would not know about all over...right ?

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score    Draw 
   1 Kookaburra 3.10                34      21     553   54.9%   48.6% 
   2 Stockfish 020425               28      20     553   54.1%   50.3% 
   3 SF-X 130425                    17      21     553   52.4%   47.7% 
   4 Corchess 210325                16      21     552   52.4%   47.8% 
   5 SF PRO2 190325                 15      21     555   52.2%   48.8% 
   6 KillfishPB 110425              14      21     551   52.0%   46.6% 
   7 Artemis 12TR                   -5      21     553   49.3%   49.0% 
   8 HypnoS++ 1.02                 -56      20     553   42.0%   49.9% 
   9 Omega MPV                     -64      21     553   40.9%   49.5% 

2488 of 4680 games finished.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 8:25 am**

UPDATE 3

This post is going about the fake Troll members,
Like Deeds...who often loves to blame my tours )

One of SOURCES:
viewtopic.php?f=38&p=40059#p40059

What do you wait? SCCT ?
Why don't run and organize a useful/great rating under
Optimal cond. such as MP, Blitz, Rapid.. Ponder ON etc. ?!

Just in case, if via weak openings and eng 3800+ Elo,
Do not forget to run min. 10.000 games (per player) ,
And vs various participants as well... and as most
Important: it will be good, if NPS values to be shared..

Otherwise, sorry to say that but NO NPS = NO TRUST
Because for gaining TRUST..it's required many years, but
Just when you lose the trust.. it's required centuries!

Hope helps )

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 8:46 am**

UPDATE 4

The tour via UHO_Lichess_4852_v1 is coming to its end
And about 120+ games (per player) are left..

As before, Kookaburra is 1st, Corchess 2nd, Stockfish 3rd!
Omega MPV is still last...

Btw, what I said before to all ?
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... t-nn-cs-56
-Unpredictable (unbalanced) performances by many participants!
Reason? due to I use to play weak openings...no other explanation
Of that..sure this applies for today... not sure for tomorrow!

And here are the latest played results:

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score    Draw 
   1 Kookaburra 3.10                32      16     919   54.6%   49.4% 
   2 Corchess 210325                24      16     919   53.4%   48.5% 
   3 Stockfish 020425               20      16     918   52.8%   49.9% 
   4 SF-X 130425                    19      16     917   52.7%   47.3% 
   5 SF PRO2 190325                 14      16     917   52.1%   49.8% 
   6 KillfishPB 110425               6      16     915   50.9%   47.5% 
   7 Artemis 12TR                    2      16     916   50.3%   50.3% 
   8 HypnoS++ 1.02                 -56      16     918   42.0%   50.2% 
   9 Omega MPV                     -62      16     917   41.2%   49.7% 

4128 of 4680 games finished.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 8:59 am**

Great tour, many thanks Mr. Sedat.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 11:59 am**

Anton101 wrote: Fri May 02, 2025 8:59 am Great tour, many thanks Mr. Sedat.

My pleasure Mr. Anton )

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 12:11 pm**

UPDATE 5

The Winner (via UHO_Lichess_4852_v1 Epd openings) is
Kookaburra 3.10 - My Congratulations to DorsZ, SF team!
In short, Kookaburra is just UNSTOPPABLE.. as real BEAST for sure !!

Where unfortunately Omega is last place..and now 100% clear that
Omega MPV engine suffers a lot via UHO_Lichess_48521 openings..
Btw, via Unique openings: Omega's performance is one of best !!

On other hand, just I's like to point out that too:
HypnoS++ 1.02 at any recent opening test cond. suffers much too!
And let's hope M.Z will improve his engine (in future releases...)

Code: Select all

Rank Name                Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Kookaburra 3.10    3869   13   13  1040   54%  3840   49% 
   2 Corchess 210325    3864   13   13  1040   53%  3841   48% 
   3 SF-X 130425        3859   13   13  1040   53%  3841   48% 
   4 Stockfish 020425   3859   13   13  1040   53%  3841   50% 
   5 SF PRO2 190325     3859   13   13  1040   53%  3841   49% 
   6 KillfishPB 110425  3848   14   14  1040   51%  3843   48% 
   7 Artemis 12TR       3845   13   13  1040   50%  3843   50% 
   8 HypnoS++ 1.02      3796   13   13  1040   42%  3849   50% 
   9 Omega MPV          3790   13   13  1040   41%  3850   49%

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/iloDCLwJ#2RPVI4Uyw ... G_F56n4Duc

And please stay tuned..soon as possible,
New and more details plus stats coming...

Greetings

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2025 12:40 pm**

Meanwhile,
Let Me say also please some notes more,
And just for our Computer Chess's progress!

1st of all,
We have to ask ourselves, in recognizing truth about NNUE:
- It is simply playing/gaining with previous trained data!
If I am missing something here...please correct Me...

On other hand,
The well-updated NNUE files + strong openings lead to
Much more draws, this is as real fact! e.g in the recent
Official tour, we noticed about 92% overall draw ratio!
Otherwise, if Unique suite was based on weak lines, then
Full of blunder moves would be born... and here just only
Who are Born-Idiots may have troubles to see the reality...!)

E.g as clear proof that Unique openings are not so Drawish:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... 1990s-cs-i
And if you need more statistics data...just let me know please...)

By the way, and once more:
Blaming the strong openings is just another MADNESS!
And please..I did not start the testings from yesterday!

Moreover,
Why we see different draw statistics (via my recent tours) ?
Simply because due to the 'strength' of the played openings!
In short, it seems Unique suite has less blunder moves in..!

For examples,
If X opening suite is full with blunders, critical, weak moves..
Then of course it's expecting to appear much more blunder moves!
In same time that means more wins...but more wins do not mean
Better..sure I refer here if determining the strength of engines!
In other words, it all depends..such as on our used tour cond.!

But this is also true that in case of using strong openings,
Less blunder moves are on scene for sure! proved, guaranteed!
And it is not required many thousands of games (per player),
E.g about 1.000 (per player) is enough for any kind of testing,
And it does not matter 2000+ or 3000+ or 3800+ Elo eng tours!

And as final words, for better eng Elo metrics:
I would prefer Bullet + Strong opening lines than
Testing the engines via Slower TC + Weak openings

In other words,
No way to run serious competitions via 'blundered' openings!
And it does not matter what you will use e.g SLOW TC, MP etc.

If still not so clear,
Weak Opening Line = The blunder move is already included in opening!
Where via strong opening suites..no much blunder moves are there...
And this is NOT as joke !! Hope helps )

And I hope too that
All my latest produced data to be useful as well !)

Greetings

OpenChess

SedatChess

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