OpenChess

Sedat Canbaz wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:19 am What a pity that,
This thread is going to different direction, sad..

And so far, unfortunately:
All of you who posted missed about the main issue..

Are you addressing me?

If so - do I think you are a liar? No. Of course not.

But to put my answer in context: I really do not pay much attention to your tests or website. Not that there is anything wrong with your efforts. I am sure they are appreciated by many. So, no criticism here. I just do not have any interest book competitions. If you are doing other tests, I was not aware of that (except the experience file v book thing).

How you set up and conduct your tests is up to you. I recall Peter Grayson once saying something to that effect on the old MZ Forum. And I agree.

I know Chris will chime in here and give me heck. . . Stay calm, my friend (I see you got banned again somewhere ). France is having enough trouble right now. . .

Now back to reading the various threads here. They are actually more entertaining than the new Indiana Jones movie. . .

Sedat Canbaz wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:19 am
And as far as I noticed,
You say that you don't care much about SedatChess activities
Sad..that means, you missed a lot...maybe you are new in chess?
Anyhow, I hope that you will follow my chess activities from now..

And I see also that you care that I've got ban on somewhere, LOL
Are you troll here ? If so.. this is my last posting to you!
If you are not informed well, I will try to talk about the reality:
Yes..I was banned by BOSS (Marco) anyhow, for anyone missed:
I left firstly his Outskirts..do you understand? if not so clear:
Ban is came later... in short, we did not agreed each other...
As result, Marco was so much affected..and preferred wrong way!
On other hand, it's not so easy to be as Moderator on chess forums..
Plus not all can be very good, professional in this job...
At least, Marco's behaviour proved this.. because I was banned
For nothing.. no doubt that I've spent BIG efforts on his both forums..
But if I deserves a BAN..sad, but it is all right.. but next time
If again they will send (even kind) invitations, simply I will say NO
One mistake is enough...so now everyone is own way...
And all right on the night!

About your rest comments over our Chameleon,
I have some doubts...but if this is true...then
I wish to Mr. Chameleon a good business..really!
But a small note, just gaining via honest way!
Btw, sure if he will follow my useful suggestions..
I'll request at least 30% commissions...because
I gave to Chameleon so many 'Brilliant' Ideas...!)
Where he may increase his sales much...

Hope helps

Looool, SedatChess is not the only testing site in the computer chess world, dont be so egotistical.... Some people (me included) dont care much about opening books and book tests so we dont follow your site, thats all... No one is obliged to watch your content / tests, it is not something crucial and you should know that

And regarding the ban, Sarona was not referring to you xD, try to read carefully before answering... he was referring to DeeDs ban at OCF

I dont think you are a liar either, LIAR is a very big word, but as I told you at Outskirts, your expertise is in the field of opening book testing, not in the learning engines field, and thats a FACT! So, in my opinion your experience tests are irrelevant and therefore not valid!

You are being so rude and you seem to be irritated, I dont understand why, but ok...

Regards,

Ibai

Sedat Canbaz wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 10:38 am @ to IbaiBuR member

Are you sarona again FAKE accounts ?

Because my previous posting/replay was to sarona member

NO! I am not Sarona, in fact I have never talked with sarona...

I replied because you are being so agressive, rude and you seem to be irritated, just stop! I replied politely, because you said: "If you dont know about SedatChess, you may be new in chess.." which is such an egotistical statement and you talked about your ban when no one mentioned it

Do you want me to give you settings for learning engines? Perfect, lets start:

Firstly, Eman should never be used with concurrency higher than 1, you should use an experience file generated by Eman, trained with at least 500 games in each opening or trained against opening books for example, for Eman it is also crucial that you set Experience MultiPV to false. Reason: If you use concurrency higher than 1, the same experience file will be read simultaneously by more than one instance of Eman and the not all of the experience data will be saved, and Experience MultiPV set to false because if not the engine will save a lot of shallow depth useless moves that will slow down the engine in future games.

In the case of BrainLearn and ShashChess,regarding training, the same (500+ games per opening / trained against books) and if you are going to use concurrency higher than 1, you must set Concurrent Experience to true. I advise you to use the 25.2 and 33.2 versions respectively because there was a big bug fix I helped Andrea fix since the engine was saving depth 0 experience entries.

Is it clear now? Or still BLA BLA BLA as you say?

I did not say all of your test are invalid, please READ, I said you tests regarding engines with learning feature are indeed invalid, but I mentioned that your field and expertise is in the opening book field, thats ALL. I explained you the settings, hopefully you follow my advice

I dont get any comission for nothing, I have my own blog, my own testings, my own machines and my own workspace, so dont speculate with false things please!

Sedat Canbaz wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:03 pm

IbaiBuR wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:30 pm because you said: "If you dont know about SedatChess, you may be new in chess.." which is such an egotistical statement and you talked about your ban when no one mentioned it

1st of all, a small advice: (as next time )
Do not try to be as advocate of Sarona member!

Continuing..

You have no clue what is going on, really!
And definitely you have troubles to read..!!

A few words yes, but almost WRONG (btw, something like Eman vs SF similarity )
YOUR WORDS:
"If you don't know about SedatChess, you may be new in chess."

This time, Open your eyes again..but 7-times re-read:

Here is my previous original text:
And as far as I noticed,
You say that you don't care much about SedatChess activities
Sad..that means, you missed a lot...maybe you are new in chess?
Anyhow, I hope that you will follow my chess activities from now.

And to be more clear,
I was referring for chess eng testings, not human chess!
Because my chess activities etc. are more than 20 years online!
Sure..in same time, it does not mean that
All chess fans (in eng testings) have to know/visit SedatChess etc.
But this also true that, many many are aware and frequent visitors!
At least according to overall SedatChess web stats confirms this!

About your latest recommendations, thank you.. but anyhow in my eyes,
Eman is not 'valid' engine (not SCCT), if X eng is not capable to learn properly
As you say.. via more than concurrency than 1

Hope helps

And as last words, it is clear that,
You do not like my work.. sad, but I respect...
Btw, can you show your 'valid' rating ?
If possible via many games ( per player)

Thank you in advance!

You are the one who thought people were talking about (you thought they were talking about your ban) and reacted in an agressive, rude and impolite way.

Again, I reacted and answered because of your attitude, not because I wanted to defend anyone, I am sure people can do that by themselves...

What I said you were saying is very similar to what you say you were saying... Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded so egotistical for me, thats all...

If you consider Eman is not a valid engine, just dont test it, its easy. And if you make any type of tests with learning engines again, please, try to follow my recommendations at least... Then the tests will be more valid

As I also said before, I respect and think you have done a very good job in the field of opening book creation and opening book testing, but yes, I definetely dont like your learning engines tests, that for sure. It is also clear that you dislike any type of test or evidence that shows results completely different to your tests or tests in which experience files get better performances than books, it is normal

You can see some of my learning engines training / results in my blog, specifically in this post: https://blog.chessnibble.com/learning-s ... d-results/

I dont organize book tours / rating lists because I have my machine occupied all day with training / lichess bot games, I hope you understand that too, I use my hardware for what makes me happy but trying to do it as best as I can...

Regards,

Ibai

No one prohibits / prevents you from using it, but you said it was not a valid engine, thats why I thought you should stop using it, because of what you said. Of course I am no one to prevent you from using it, I just gave you some recommendations, thats all.

And yes, I am a programmer, I am studying Computer Engineering, but, as you may know, no one knows everything, I only tried to to provide you my experience / what I learnt in the field of engines with learning, thats all really.

Regarding fixing Eman, as you may know, Eman's source code is private! So I cant make any changes / fix what you say because I dont have access to the source code of the engine itself

Eman may have won the tour, but the experience file generated probably is corrupted and does not contain the experience data from all the games!

At least, it seems we could finish this discussions without insults now... Thanks...

Sedat wrote: ...
Besides, SCCT- BOOK / EXP / NNUE's
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... t-ben-cs-1
Data (all games + books + exp files) is not shared to anyone!
...

And we have several new lies here !

For example, about this test, the games were shared. With courtesy of Rulleeeee, we also have a copy of his exp file. So we can compare if the played moves are the most efficient moves from the Rulleeeee's exp file.

Another example, about this test, the games were shared. The exp files were shared here. So we can compare if the played moves are the most efficient moves from the Raptora's exp file.

Courtesy of the collective of Depth4's customers :

Depth4's customers wrote: Hey DeeDs, look at this :


Sedat, the most incredible tester of learning engines !

I suspected it but there yes it is very clear thank you to all of you

Deeds is not going to send anything, he just evades the challenges. It does not send me exp.cpp and modified exp.h... It does not send its experience file for a duel against books.

This living being is a waste of time.

Between one who makes promises when he loses credibility at each tournament and the other who claims the paternity of engines whose source codes he does not know how to modify, we understand why they are in contact

With all the tools and knowledge shared for months/years in the area of ​​learning engines, a small minority still don't know the settings for training mode or tourney mode, still don't know how to get experience files from games.

Despite all their attempts to cling to the nextgen performance of learning engines, our greatest satisfaction is watching them fail again and again.

Finally I'm very happy not to read c/c++ because I avoid all its engine modifications and not to play online because I avoid all these people

To be clear: that Proteus experience file has very little Aurora data as I was/am training and saving files based on specific ECO codes - as opposed to one large one. I have individual files (A00, A01, A02, etc). He did not receive a large exp file from me. Just Aurora self play games with narrow opening lines. That experience file is most likely a merge of multiple files from the various chess fora trained with different engines with different evaluation/searches. I am not even sure if Igor was using one specific engine on the Playchess server as many of the various Proteus search sources were quite different. There were even mods to the PSQTs. It makes no sense to merge StockfishMZ, Aurora, Eman and other experience files together. That is pretty stupid.

I have been looking at Sedat's parameters specifically for book testing and a lot of what he is trying makes sense. Do not underestimate his approach when dealing solely with book testing. I am getting interesting results by not using NNUE in my preliminary tests with other polyglot books (Goi was mentioning this on Outskirts last week). This method is logical and seems to be an improvement over conventional approaches - so far.