SedatChess

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE 2

Well, I just realized to test latest Stockfish 17,
Which is super strong close to 3800+ plus free !
That means a lot really...thanks a lot to SF team!

And here are latest new results, enjoy

Bullet (30s+0.6s): + 6 Elo diff. (in favor for SF17)

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1   Stockfish 17    +28/-12/=960 50.80%  508.0/1000
2   Stockfish 16.1  +12/-28/=960 49.20%  492.0/1000

Note: 64 MB Hash is used for Bullet / DrawRatio: 96%

-----------------------------------------------------

Blitz (2m+1s): + 1 Elo diff. (in favor for SF17)

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1   Stockfish 17    +4/-2/=494 50.20%  251.0/500
2   Stockfish 16.1  +2/-4/=494 49.80%  249.0/500

Note: 128 MB Hash is used for Blitz  / DrawRatio: 99%

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/3hhmmBiS#YpCICwKMH ... WAz8k1gzNg

Conditions / Some Notes:
2x Epyc 7B12, CuteChess 1.3.1, Ponder OFF, 1 Core, 4-MEN, Balsa v500,
Note (for fair cond.): all openings are repeated with switched colors..
Note also that both Top SF engines are played via move overhead: 400

But anyhow, I have bad news too, reality is reality..
E.g latest Stockfish 17 is not so stable...sad indeed..
E.g SF17 is lost 1 (one) game on time (via Bullet)

On other hand, we are in 2024..but still we see
Instability, bad issues...moreover, SF team is based
On army of Top authors...but unfortunately non of them
Can improve SF17 in better way, sure I'm not referring
About its strength..I mean simply about eng stability!
This is a very important part.. at least for my side!!

By the way,
Soon as possible, I hope to share other new NON-NN tests...
Duel match: Stockfish 10 vs Stockfish 11.. we will see
What is Elo improvements and we will see their stability too..
And the test is exactly under same Bullet cond. via Balsa v500 too!
And let's see NON-NN Top engines will be too drawish or not ?!
Because in case of 3800 Elo vs 3800 Elo is just waste of time..
E.g as we see, no much Elo improvement..in more than 6 months..
Maybe SF team Is too busy with handicapped (weak) opening lines?
BTW, just don't say/suggest to use these how do they say 'unbalanced'
Lines.. because just in case...if my car has 'unbalanced'
Vehicle problems...my 1st job to be in car repair service !)
Sorry here...and it seems, via NN 3800+ harder to add NN Elo points...
Ok.. I already forgot SF Elo improvements...and let's hope also next
Stockfish 18 to be stable as before (like in the past) !!

In other words,
I hope all SF Authors will pay more attention about Eng stability...
Sure I refer here before final official releases... thanks in advance

And please stay tuned... very soon SF10 vs SF11 is coming!

Greetings )

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE 3

Bullet NON-NN: + 54 Elo diff. (in favor for SF11)

And via NON-NN: no any game is recorded to be lost on time !!
In other words, it seems all very stable... great news for sure !

Code: Select all

1   Stockfish 11  +230/-75/=695 57.75%  577.5/1000
2   Stockfish 10  +75/-230/=695 42.25%  422.5/1000

Note: 64 MB Hash is used for Bullet / DrawRatio: 69%

Conditions / Some Notes:
2x Epyc 7B12, CuteChess 1.3.1, Ponder OFF, 1 Core, 4-MEN, Balsa v500,
Note (for fair cond.): all openings are repeated with switched colors
Both SF engines are played with Move overhead: 200

As FINAL Conclusion,
Classic is Classic...it is better, more fun and very stable!
Sure NON-NN is weaker...but stability is more important!
If nothing else, if comparing the latest SF17 release....

Meanwhile, this is nothing new.. e.g with my older hardware,
During the famous Duel Match: Book Vs NNUE III:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... ks-vs-nnue
Again and again the older SF NN (including SugaR) are lost on time too!
What is changed ? not so much...same story as in past..sad, but true!

Btw, what does it mean 'Classic' word: 'High quality'
At least under these played conditions, it seems to be so!
As we see..there are better stable games plus the matches are
Played via strong opening lines... besides, both SF vers produced:
69% draws !! you know.. not so high numbers, right?
Because the present latest test was with Top engines 3500 -3600 Elo points...
Plus, under these cond. more than 50+Elo improvement (between both vers.)
And frankly.. as a TD / Tester: I hope and I love to see similar good news...
Otherwise, just in case newer releases...sure with time forfeits etc. then
I feel like there is something wrong with my hardware/tournament setup !)

And I hope also that,
All my produced data to be useful for programmers ...if not..will be sad..
But I can live with that.. !)

Ok dear friends...thanks for reading, interest..see you later )

Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

EDIT:

Meanwhile, this is nothing new.. e.g with my older hardware,
During the famous Duel Match: Book Vs NNUE III:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... nn-vs-book
Again and again the older SF NN (including SugaR) are lost on time too!
What is changed ? not so much...same story as in past..sad, but true!

[Sedat Canbaz]

By the way,,
All (1000) games are uploaded of latest Bullet (30s+0.6s) SF11 vs SF10 NON-NN:
https://mega.nz/file/bsgWWT7Y#wzcS2yZym ... NruoukA0QU

Greetings

[Homayoun]

Many thanks and bravo, Sedat.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Many thanks and bravo, Sedat.

You are welcome and thanks dear Homayoun )

[Ding-Bat]

Thanks Buddy any chance to test the metal of book makers and run a tour on say books under 3MB

[Sedat Canbaz]

Thanks Buddy any chance to test the metal of book makers and run a tour on say books under 3MB

Not at all dear chess friend )

A good idea...

Actually not sure exactly what will be the book size rules..
Yes...as you said, up to 3 MB or up to 5 MB sounds not so bad...
On other hand,
Today especially I am too busy...but in the next days,
I hope to start new book tours with size categories..

Greetings )

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello Chess Friends )

Here are the new size rules, for next planning Book CS:
Note: These size rules may be changed..(till tour start)

Small: Up to 15 MB
Medium: 16 - 65 MB
Large: 66 - 255 MB
Giant: 256 - 1 GB

More Details:
All opening books are allowed (private plus public books too)
Per League/s: Several books are allowed (by same author), but
As usually, each other have to be different in playing styles!
In Giant: For known/frequent authors, thanks for understanding

As main chess engine,
All entries will be played by 9-times Champion: Cfish 030820 C40
Some may play by various engines too, close in strength to Cfish
But note that the less drawish chess engines will be participated...
You may know, there are plenty of Top chess engines, but theirs
Produced draw ratio is really waste of time and not so stable plus
It does mot mean when 'newer' is better... sometimes Retro ones
Can be better...as reference check latest Stockfish 17 test! exc.
SF17's very high draw ratio..plus we noticed time forfeit etc. Btw,
Even in early of 2000 years, the chess engines were more stable !!
What happened much that some programmers job become as worse ?
If was a opening book I cıuld try to help.. but here I wonder much...

Continuing...

In other words, via planning new 'SIZE' Championship Book Leagues,
It's expecting more fair / unique game-play styles / more fun! since
I expect to appear more wins..if not.. too boring if almost all draws!

And without tıo not mention this I can not as well )
In case of dislikes etc..I suggest NON-SCCT results...enough over
Long past years...mostly of these critics are pointless...because
The way which I work, forget everything...even many are not aware
About what is going on.. and very likely they think that these tours
Are as joke..but no problem..if all like my work that means simply
I'm doing it wrong...be sure, no way to satisfy all, it's impossible!
Of course, in case of any question/s.. please don't hesitate to ask..

Be aware of that too please,
I've a lot of private mails, where mostly are grateful to my chess activities!
In short, we should not concentrate only over the negative people/posts...
E.g mostly chess friends are quite kind and good persons...otherwise,
Since a long long time, I would be out from our computer chess scene..
But this is also true, my job is not so easy...just imagine...so many and
Different people + successful tours..over long past years and by single TD )
And sure there will be attacks by spoiled, conceited, dishonest guys etc.
It is something like as 'nature rules' !) besides, without all of them..
Our World...would not be much boring too ?)

On other hand,
I admit too that my work is not perfect..Btw, what about yours ?)
And can you share please..but over than 1000+ of games (per player)
But a small note, with many players as well...then we can discuss..
Actually I am not against critics too, but only in friendly way )

But anyhow, let's hope for more positive people and good news too,
And let's hope also that the same mistake/s to not appear as twice!

More info soon as possible and meantime be ready for the 'real' Arena )

Greetings

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE

To be more clear,
Why these kind of conditions are planning? as I stated earlier for
More accurate/fair/wins/fun...plus it's boring if each time same!
And once more, it is all in our hands...No one is forcing us to be
Played all books via BIG assistance, right?..besides, this is not as best
Way to check which books are strongest, because via BIG assistance:
Such as Slower TC, MP, Ponder ON, BIG Evalfiles etc. are not best,
Ideal systems to check who are best, as we know, with less help etc.
Then no doubt that the planning book tournaments will be harder as
- Climbing to mountain Everest..like at highest point: 8,848m !)

Btw, let's imagine (under if better/optimal cond.)..e.g we will set
BIG NN, MP, Ponder ON, Blitz, Rapid..wow..perfect )) but what about
Fun? What about accurate ranks? Error margin? I mean just in case...
Then how many games needed to be produced? how many of them will be
Ended as wins?) I'd try..but my hardware + electricity is not cheap)

Meanwhile (just out of curiosity about what will be the influences)
Since mostly of book entries will be played by Cfish 030820 as well..
I realized to run a new gauntlet tour, where again same Number Ones
Of 2006-2010 years openings e.g now all books played by Cfish 030820

And as we see, again and again...
Perfect 16 book has another unbelievable / unforgettable records !!
Where at present with 57% Wining Percentage and with 68% DrawRatio!
Moreover, this time P16 managed to overcome any Number One of past..
E.g in some recent tours...P16 is lost to several other Champions..
And once more, non of theirs deep opening lines are touched...I mean
They are tuned to prefer their orginal openings (played in 2006-2010)

What I can say more,
If your openings are not so bad..it does not matter so much too,
Such as NN or as without NN...all in your hands.. just take it!
If you can not.. no any problem at all.. because all for fun !)
But a small request, before starting creating a opening book:
Please pay atteention at least to quality games/database/s...

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score    Draw 
   0 Perfect 16                     50      15     650   57.1%   68.0% 
   1 CompMaster                    -14      43      50   48.0%   80.0% 
   2 OmPrakash                     -21      56      50   47.0%   66.0% 
   3 Experimental                  -21      56      50   47.0%   66.0% 
   4 Magnificent                   -28      55      50   46.0%   68.0% 
   5 Ultra-Blitz                   -42      42      50   44.0%   80.0% 
   6 My Book                       -42      61      50   44.0%   60.0% 
   7 Yograj                        -49      56      50   43.0%   66.0% 
   8 Hurricane                     -49      48      50   43.0%   74.0% 
   9 Perfect 13x                   -56      58      50   42.0%   64.0% 
  10 Rybka III                     -63      59      50   41.0%   62.0% 
  11 Xmas2640                      -85      48      50   38.0%   72.0% 
  12 Perfect 13                    -85      60      50   38.0%   60.0% 
  13 Rybka II                      -92      54      50   37.0%   66.0% 

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/6txS2QBR#x9zgPvhf- ... -hX7nbArD0

Conditions:
2x Epyc 7B12, CuteChess, 1 Core, Ponder OFF, 1m+06s, 64 MB Hash, 4-MEN

Ok friends, very likely tomorrow, I'm going to start the event!
And as firstly as players with the ones, which are small in sizes..

Good luck to all )

Best,
Sedat