OpenChess

SOLIDOR wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:31 am currently Stockfish is the best...

Hello Soılidar,

Any facts ? otherwise, your comments are pointless...

To be more clear
I hope you will share a ranking with thousands of games (per player),
And if..please don't forget to attach all played games and cond. as well
Thanks in advance

By the way, (if you not aware, according to many many SCCT tours),
Usually SF-based ones managed to overcome real mother (Stockfish):
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... eng-champs

Best,
Sedat

moonstonelight wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:52 am Hi Sedat,
My main issue is not related to Stockfish clones, I've been using them for years. I even created engine clones for a long time for myself. My issue is about random clones that nobody knows what is different from regular fish. I knew what's different between my clones, to drop some names I knew what's different between Blue Marlin and Crystal, Eman and Kayra etc... Can't (some) authors at least give a small description about their clone? Why would anyone use that engine if it didn't appeal to them? For all I know, we can be downloading a virus from that link that has no description whatsoever.
Regards...

Hello moonstonelight,

This is other story of course... )

But in your previous posting: you question was poor like Stockfish )

Well, you have right..and here I agree 100% with you!
Sure more info, details etc. definitely will be better..

Actually it will be good idea not only SF-based authors to give
Details.. what about real SF Authors ? Theirs info is limited too!

For example: what is the difference between SF 16.1 vs SF 17 ?
I am not asking about their sizes etc. e.g what about stability ?
And if you going to ask my opinion:
I will tell one thing: SF 16.1 is better than SF 17, for more info:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3600&start=1550

And just do not ask why please.. )

Greetings

Hi, Sedat and other friends who are present at this discussion.
And I want to add that stockfish 16 was better than stockfish 16.1 according to me. (Was more stable and also more aggressive).
Best regards

In my tests, actually the "aggressivest" Stockfish of all was SF 070222, somewhere after 14 I guess. It has a poor scale that got fixed in the later updates, but also that scale made it really aggressive. (I'm not including blue marlin or any other made to be crazy sf clone, just pure sf versions)

About the question of what's the difference between SF 16 and 17, or we can even take it further to say between any SF version after 14.1, is neural net formats, sizes, and speedups. Somewhere along the road we lost classical eval, and somewhere along the road we got a second small net but that's the summary of latest three years of development in SF. They made it work to gain some elo somehow, but if somebody's been thinking otherwise, that's another story.

Homayoun wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:34 pm Hi, Sedat and other friends who are present at this discussion.
And I want to add that stockfish 16 was better than stockfish 16.1 according to me. (Was more stable and also more aggressive).
Best regards

Hello Homayoun,

You have right too, because any NN engine playing style,
Strength etc. even stability depends mainly on Evalfiles...
Including EXP files as well... for example, too much RAM
Required..sure in case of EXP tests via concurrent matches,
But here..RAM issue can not be problem, since my tournament
Machine has plenty of RAM installed: 256 GB

What I can add more, not always but sometimes:
The more NN/EXP data. the more BUGS on scene!
Sad, but true...

That's why I say: Classic is Classic ! e.g
Before NN to appear... I mean before 2020:
There was not so many BIG troubles ...at least
I can not remember time forfeits by Stockfish!

In other words,
For some extra Elo points...too many problems...

Greetings )

moonstonelight wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:36 pm In my tests, actually the "aggressivest" Stockfish of all was SF 070222, somewhere after 14 I guess. It has a poor scale that got fixed in the later updates, but also that scale made it really aggressive. (I'm not including blue marlin or any other made to be crazy sf clone, just pure sf versions)

About the question of what's the difference between SF 16 and 17, or we can even take it further to say between any SF version after 14.1, is neural net formats, sizes, and speedups. Somewhere along the road we lost classical eval, and somewhere along the road we got a second small net but that's the summary of latest three years of development in SF. They made it work to gain some elo somehow, but if somebody's been thinking otherwise, that's another story.

I see... and interesting to read what you wrote

But if we are going to discuss a little bit more,
Why the mother (Stockfish) is so poor ( comparing with its sons etc) ?
In my eyes: the strength is important but it is not all...I mean
What about FUN - Classic Game play ?) What about Stability ?
What about including CTG future, EXP future or BIN book future ?

Btw, as you may see:
I am not talking why SF17 is not much stronger than SF16.1
I ask why SF17 is worse in stability than SF 16.1 ? sure you
Are not right person..the real answer is in the hands of SF authors
But my 6th strong sense says that they damaged SF code or NN file
Or simply they are not aware..or simply maybe they do not care..
Actually No problem...my job is ending here.. I am not going each
Time to report.. simply I will use other engines...for best solution!

In other words,
I like more Stockfish's ggood sons and beautiful daughters )
And very likely here... I am not alone... !)

Greetings

My opinion is that it would be necessary to clarify the classifications.
The difference between clone and derivative is abysmal.
So in this Thread most likely we are talking about Derivatives but wrongly defined as Clones.

This has value between Stockfish Source Code -> Modified Code (Derived) A clone is simply a source code to which no modifications have been made. In fact it has only been renamed.
Summarizing, in this case Clone can be defined as any source code to which only the name of the engine has been changed.

Amos 4ever wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 11:51 am My opinion is that it would be necessary to clarify the classifications.
The difference between clone and derivative is abysmal.
So in this Thread most likely we are talking about Derivatives but wrongly defined as Clones.

This has value between Stockfish Source Code -> Modified Code (Derived) A clone is simply a source code to which no modifications have been made. In fact it has only been renamed.
Summarizing, in this case Clone can be defined as any source code to which only the name of the engine has been changed.

Great another Nemeth. Go back to your shit hole and work on your crap Hypnos!

STUDENT_MASTER wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:12 pm Great another Nemeth. Go back to your shit hole and work on your crap Hypnos!

The only shit here is you, who along with many others had the opportunity to copy and paste and create your own junk engines thanks to M.Z!

Robert57 wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:10 pm

STUDENT_MASTER wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:12 pm Great another Nemeth. Go back to your shit hole and work on your crap Hypnos!

The only shit here is you, who along with many others had the opportunity to copy and paste and create your own junk engines thanks to M.Z!

Another shit brained face, your brain is full of shit. Are you single you must be, cz i feel sorry for the poor wife