Re: when a daily tester should review his tests

[IbaiBuR]

DeeDs techniques are best techniques to train engines, believe it or not, but there is already a loooot of evidence of this...

He has been giving us tools an recommendations for almost a year and a half already...

I know your relationship with DeeDs is not good Sedat, but, believe it or not, DeeDs is the best expert in self learning chess engines so far, and thats a fact (I am not the only one saying it lol)

You may or may not like the price of the experience file or the fact that he sells it instead of sharing it (I understand that he doesnt just give it away for free and thats all too, he has been working on it for so much time to just give it for nothing), but no one has put the effort he has put over training an engine...

I know you have been testing openings books for so much years, thats your field for sure and you have expertise there, but not with learning engines, you already demonstrated that.

Anyways, I hope you understand...

Regards,

Ibai

[Amos 4ever]

I have been quietly reading this discussion and would like to give my opinion, from personal experience.
Chris and I shared a long time, we were friends and I am sorry for the way things turned out, he definitely does not have a good character, and very direct and sharp.
However I really learned a lot from him, his tools are just great and his training method is superlative.
I have learned from him everything I know about experience files, learning criteria and how the engine stores data, I use his methods to train my files with success and satisfaction. I believe that he represents the highest authority in the knowledge of self-learning and the training of related files.
That he has chosen to market the fruit of his efforts is his right, let us not forget that he has been sharing all his material for a long time, I have witnessed firsthand in various forums, comprewso mine how many people have distorted his methods and polluted his explanations.
So I understand his decision not to share null more publicly, in his place I would have done the same thing.

Regards

M.Z

[Anton101]

Well Sedat, now you have two trained exp files, and one exp file played in playchess server, I send you the engines Deeds use and has been recommend and the engine SugaR 2.40 that played and generated the exp file.

All exp file was public, no games added.

I used a copy just to play against them. That's it.

Regards.

[sarona]

....his tools are just great and his training method is superlative.
I have learned from him everything I know about experience files, learning criteria and how the engine stores data, I use his methods to train my files with success and satisfaction. I believe that he represents the highest authority in the knowledge of self-learning and the training of related files.
That he has chosen to market the fruit of his efforts is his right, let us not forget that he has been sharing all his material for a long time. . .

I completely agree. Marco. I have a somewhat similar experience with him - although I hope he and I are still on good terms (I try to joke with him to lighten the mood sometimes). I have never asked for anything from him. His posts and PMs are more than enough. They still are a treasure trove of knowledge. His tools as well.

His threads were invaluable to me in 2021. He never asked anything from me except Aurora (and a few compiles) and I gladly gave it to him out of appreciation for his work -and out of respect which I still have.

Yes, he can be like a volcano and I certainly would not want a younger version of him for future a son-in-law But no one should doubt his expertise regarding experience learning.

[Anton101]

A talented jerk is a talented jerk. I wouldn't waste my time with someone so "efficient" but with personality disorders. Cool with no personality? I don't think so... He should be on Twitter, fits better with his character.

[deeds]

DeeDs techniques are best techniques to train engines, believe it or not, but there is already a loooot of evidence of this...

Thank IbaiBuR ! I was and i'm still working on experience file format v3 so i didn't reply to your post in time, héhé loool

I must admit that between my LS1 (Eman experience vs Eman only) and my LS11 (in progress...), I tested several settings and sparring-partners to better help Eman and the other engines to learn. I also learned loool

I know you (Sedat) have been testing openings books for so much years, thats your field for sure and you have expertise there, but not with learning engines, you already demonstrated that.

Yes, Sedat-like people have already demonstrated that learning engines weren't their field.

But the main problem is that they present their results as truthful, fair play, etc. When this was not the case, I pointed out their lies with evidence. When daily testers have lied several times they become liars. They deserve this "name and shame" topic.

Now we all know Sedat is unable to properly set a tourney with learning engines (training mode, concurrency>1, foreign exp file) and Sedat lied to people (renamed exp files, deleted exp files, cumulated results of virtual book) with his unfair/wrong results about learning engines.

[deeds]

...he (DeeDs) definitely does not have a good character, and very direct and sharp...

I admit that I basically dislikes fanatics of non-playing engines with their opening books full of foreign engine moves.

When they reduce the strength of the playing engines by settings from another time, my "appreciation" gets worse.
In 2023, there are still daily testers with 1 thread/engine loool

Of course, I no longer have any pity for those :
- who lie about the quality of learning engines
- who still wonder if the experience files have an influence on the engines (=they insult Kelly, Khalid, Andrea, Marco, etc. by doing that)
- who anonymize the experience files (by renaming them, deleting them, etc.)
- who want to use an experience file with any engine (they have no idea about experience file formats / compatibilities, etc.)

With Sedat-like people, it's easy to show evidences of their lies because they don't train engines, they don't understand experience data, they haven't knowledge on learning features, they still use the default settings (training mode, only 70-75% conformity with experience data), they don't understand anything on topics where engine's trainers share their experience/knowledge, they are perfect targets.

...I believe that he represents the highest authority in the knowledge of self-learning and the training of related files...
...I have witnessed firsthand in various forums, comprewso mine how many people have distorted his methods and polluted his explanations...

Over time, I realized that I was not suitable for public discussions because there are people who see learning engines as a threat to their daily routine.

We all understand that Sedat-like people will refuse to admit the superiority of learning engines (dynamic chess versus static) because they won't lose a century of book tests, they won't change their daily routine of updating their book rankings, they are not going to learn the uses and settings of the learning engines, they have missed the train of engine's training, it is too late for them so it is better to discredit the learning feature by all means.

[deeds]

...I hope he and I are still on good terms (I try to joke with him to lighten the mood sometimes)...His posts and PMs are more than enough....

As long as I train Aurora (or HypnoS), it's a good sign...

...They still are a treasure trove of knowledge...
...His threads were invaluable to me in 2021...
...out of appreciation for his work -and out of respect which I still have...
... But no one should doubt his expertise regarding experience learning...

Thank Sarona ! In my opinion, those are the same who doubt about it and who don't train engines, with a special mention to those who have books in competition hi hi hi !

[deeds]

Ok these ones are Depth4 games from training with books but there are even more Depth4 games :
- merged vs pure experience data
- SF15.1 at TC 60+1 vs Eman exp. at fixed depth
- etc.

What a joke if someone creates again a book with Depth4 games which contains moves evaluated at D4 loool
But all the means are good for those who want to insult authors of learning engines, engine's trainers, learning feature, etc.

Ok now it's time for me to work again on exp v3...

[Anton101]

Regards.