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Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:19 am
by Sarciness
I concur about the eval graphs- very nice addition but the length of the y-axis needs to be increased by, say, 2 or 3 times so that more detail can be seen.

Also, maybe cap eval at +/- 5 or 6 instead of 8 for easier-to-view fine detail?

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:16 pm
by Martin Thoresen
As already mentioned by BB+, an eval graph has now been added to the live page. You can hide it if you feel like it.
I will update the other pages with the same graph later today.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:36 am
by BB+
I think my suggestion for the eval graph was more along the lines of making a logarithmic(?) y-axis somehow. E.g., the behaviour between 4 and 8 is not as interesting as that between 0 and 4, and so it perhaps could be condensed. My guess is that finding the "optimal" eval graph params are about as difficult as the "optimal" draw/resign rules. :)

For instance, in the graph below, the 0.0 to 1.0 range is more interesting (to me at least) than the 2.0 to 7.5 range, even though most of the graph wiggles happen in the latter. If I find the time, I will re-process the data-points therein, to give an example of what I personally would prefer.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:42 am
by BB+
Battle of the leaders in Round 6 saw Stockfish prevail over Junior. White's nascent kingside pressure was rather suddenly winning (see the graph in the previous post), as Black's queenside invaders turned out to be much out of play.
Stockfish showed 1.13 at move 36, and after the deadly(?!) h-pawn push 37. h3 (with f4 to follow), jumped to 2.54, with Junior taking a few more moves to recognise the extent of the damage.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:16 am
by BB+
OK, here is what I produced for the Stockfish-Junior graph two posts previous. I ended up taking double logarithms as sign(y)*log(1+log(1+|y|)), and labelled the y-axis accordingly via sign(y)*(exp(exp(|y|)-1)-1). I also trimmed off the first 10 moves on the x-axis, and limited y in size to 10.0.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:39 pm
by Sarciness
Shouldn't that be sin(y) ?

I think the idea of a logarithmic scale is an interesting one and I was also going to suggest starting the x-axis at 10 as there is no data before that point.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:42 pm
by BB+
I'm not sure where a sine comes in. The y-axis is transformed vertically by twice applying the x->log(1+x) map (with care for absolute values).

Rybka just had a nice piece sac (move 43) against Sjeng:Black seemed to me to have the wrong strategic plan the whole game (or maybe, there was just no good plan to start), as playing on the queenside was playing into White's pawn structure. Rybka's central push with e4/e5 (moves 22-24) left Black with a position that is at best painful to defend long-term.

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:47 pm
by ernest
BB+ wrote:I'm not sure where a sine comes in.
:D

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:34 am
by Sarciness
Keep a linear scale, ditch eval for first 10 moves is what I think!

Re: TCEC Stage 2a - Season 3 (150m + 30s) LIVE! Starts 18/5

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:23 am
by BB+
Just now, I realise there was a "sign" versus "sine" confusion - I did indeed meant the former, as for negative x, you first want to negate it. In realtime, the graphs are OK, but for those who don't match TCEC 24 hours a day, eyeballing a graph from a decisive game in the post-mortem can often not reveal too much.

Junior had another nice win against Sjeng, after White was preferred as much as 1.00 by Sjeng (move 26).

But then, just as I came in, Rybka had jumped fairly rapidly from 0.00 to 2.96 in a rook ending against Junior (which was almost drawn previously due to lots of near-0.00 scores and shuffling). The first move where Rybka had a non-0.00 score was 72. Rxh5, after which Junior originally thought Black was better. The scores were both 0.00 from move 50 to 63, but then Junior favoured Black a bit after the a4 push, but moving the King up so as to support the a-pawn backfired in the end.