personal attacks : when they have no more arguments...

[Martin_1969]

Creating an experience file takes a lot of computer time, a lot of energy.
You have to play the same line many times. I let Eman play 2000 games at (TC 3+1) against the same engine (C_Dragon v3.1) with a single line (rnbqkbnr/pppppppppp/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1). This is a UHO opening, which was also used on chess.com.The engines both used 2 cores each. Not only did it take a long time, as you can only play one game at a time, I'm sure Eman didn't get any real advantage from it even after 2000 games. Me, on the other hand, I created a bin-book from the 2000 games in only a few minutes, which performed better in a match with a TC of 3+1 against C-Dragon. For the book I used SF-FB from 09/28/24.
Creating a strong experience file is disproportionate between the benefit and the time needed.
And everyone can test this himself. I certainly won't do it again.
An independent tester can certainly confirm this.

[Martin_1969]

link to the games:
https://uploadnow.io/files/bHhTzT2

[Sedat Canbaz]

@ to Honest, Good People

1st of all,
I disagree if 'someone' who will say here 'meaningless' about
If we are running such as Duel matches: Book vs Experience!

In my opinion,
Everything is possible! plus proved, not via papers, but via facts
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... k-vs-exp-3

Btw, a few words more about Mr. Anton Ces, his RapTora engine:
Plus via its own EXP was trained to play vs many Top deep books,
And all we noticed that the success was in the door! It's true that
In one of Book vs EXP Duels, his EXP could not win..but in Duel III,
RapTora EXP's great performance is still in my mind !!

What I can say more,
Anton Ces is one of best, talented programmers, plus via EXP files!
And this is not all, also he is a true master over deep books too!
And I wish to say once more, BIG thanks to him..his is real friend!
Sure as same words going for many others as well, thanks again!

What I can say more and more all over these issues,
It's all in our hands, when I say all, a fast hardware is required!
Is this all? not of course, knowledge, natural talent, passion, time,
Enormous efforts and is this all? not of course a good health..and
I should not mention that HONESTY required!! yes Honesty is one
Of most important parts to be a 'good' human and to be successful!
And why I say like that?
Liar is not believed even when he tells the truth.

[deeds]

I understood that an experience file can help as a great assistant to modify lines and variants in chess openings.
...
So a match between a book and experience file is meaningless
...
Also we shouldn’t apply an engine with its experience file( on mode) in tournaments for measuring it’s strength , only the content and quality of an experience file is important. These are true?

training mode :
- experience book = false
- experience book read only = false
- etc
In this mode, learning engine + exp file = professor + student.
So the losses are as important as the draws or the wins, learning engines are here to learn what moves win or win quickly, what moves lose or lose slowly, what moves hold a draw in unfavorable position, etc.

tourney mode :
- experience book = true
- experience book read only = true (if the engine has a different evaluation than the EXP file)
- etc
In this mode, learning engine + exp file = student + dictionary.
If the student does not have the right dictionary, the exam score will depend only on the student's intelligence.
If the student has the right dictionary, the exam score may even be better than the student's intelligence alone, but in no case this exam score will be representative of the value of the dictionary or the intelligence of the dictionary's author. The exam score will represent the team student + dictionary for this specific exam.

[deeds]

...
Not only did it take a long time, as you can only play one game at a time
...

how to create a learning farm

...
I'm sure Eman didn't get any real advantage from it even after 2000 games.
Me, on the other hand, I created a bin-book from the 2000 games in only a few minutes
...

The creation of the BIN book took the cumulative time of 2000 games + a few minutes.
The BIN book only started to be useful after the cumulative time of 2000 games + a few minutes.

The creation of the EXP file only took the time of 1 game.
The EXP file started to be useful from the 1st game.

The EXP file contains more data than the BIN book.
With "experience book = true", the moves will be almost the same as with the BIN book.

For the book I used SF-FB from 09/28/24.
...
An independent tester can certainly confirm this.
...

An independent tester haven't the tool to use SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the EXP file in order to compare with SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the BIN file.

[Homayoun]

Is it possible for engine in learning mode to find a brilliant move that nobody else has never noticed it brfore( innovation)? If the answer is yes, I think it has the worth to spend time for training and making experience files than just making books from only existed moves. Although making books is also worthy but in recent years chess needs more to innovations.
Note: when I say nobody else I mean even other chess engines too.

[Homayoun]

Let me ask my question in other way:
Suppose an engine like clover ( not stockfish family). Can the version 6 of clover with experience file and also skilled trainer be even stronger than version 8 of clover which uses a different and new NNUE net( but without exp file).
Thanks in advance
Note: stronger here : means having more positional knowledge and better performance.

[Martin_1969]

[/quote]
An independent tester haven't the tool to use SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the EXP file in order to compare with SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the BIN file.
[/quote]

you can find all the tools here in this forum and creating a bin book is very easy.

[Martin_1969]

you can find all the tools here in this forum and creating a bin book is very easy.

[Martin_1969]

An independent tester haven't the tool to use SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the EXP file in order to compare with SF-FB from 09/28/24 + the BIN file.

you can find all the tools here in this forum and creating a bin book is very easy.