Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

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deeds
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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by deeds » Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:21 pm

rulleeeee wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:26 am
"Concurrent Experience" can you explain it to me simply because from what asmchess wrote for brainlearn I don't really understand these options. if i use Chessbase and Banksia gui should i use this option in Brainlearn?
For brainlearn-like engines, the "concurrent experience" option asks each instance of the engine to use an unique experience file, even on the same directory. So at startup, each instance adds few random characters to the filename of their copy of experience.bin file, e.g. experience-d5h3z.bin. So there is no concurrent access on an unique experience.bin file even with concurrency=1000 on the GUI. At the end, the user runs brainlearn which will automatically merge all experience-*.bin files into an unique experience.bin file. That's all !

As there is no such option with Eman, each time you see or heard about a concurrency > 1, the tester is unenlighted. At best he got few crashes and his eman.exp doesn't contain all played moves from each instance. At worst, his tourney was interrupted after tens of crashes because several instances tried to read/write on the same and unique eman.exp.

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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by IbaiBuR » Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm

As I said, Eman is not made to be used for concurrency > 1 for training. Hopefully everyone can understand this and stops making tests with concurrency higher than 1 with Eman while training lol

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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by deeds » Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:43 pm

Even from scratch, i mean from an empty eman.exp file, with a concurrency=2, each instance won't get all the experience data of the other because it is attached to their respective game duration. Imagine the number of crashes and the among of lost experience data with concurrency=8 or more loool

Eman-like engines are made for world-class quality games with maximum threads (cluster), big hash to speed up operations on their experience file, min 500 games/opening, widest variety of opponent's playing style, reinforced experience data, etc. Imagine how it is a joke to run eman on 1 thread with concurrency >1 with 128 MB hash when the eman.exp weighs hundreds of MB and the biggest LIE is to run Eman on tourney but with default settings = training mode loool

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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by deeds » Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:47 pm

IbaiBuR wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm
As I said, Eman is not made to be used for concurrency > 1 for training. Hopefully everyone can understand this and stops making tests with concurrency higher than 1 with Eman while training lol
Not everyone unfortunately... But we have a good laugh when with a concurrency=64, daily testers are surprised that it crashes ! Lol

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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:57 pm

deeds wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:47 pm
IbaiBuR wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm
As I said, Eman is not made to be used for concurrency > 1 for training. Hopefully everyone can understand this and stops making tests with concurrency higher than 1 with Eman while training lol
Not everyone unfortunately... But we have a good laugh when with a concurrency=64, daily testers are surprised that it crashes ! Lol
Really, Eman is designed to be played only with max threads ?
What a joke...))) do you suggest me to play at 256 threads?
Anything more else...?

Look...what I can say more,
You do NOT want to replay to my previous questions...
If you are really so good in this area.. if not...
Sad but not my problem!

E.g recently I posted postings to your address,
Where you are refusing to replay... hehe.

In other words,
What kind of man you are...?
Are you experts on comments..or what ?

Btw, regarding BrainLearn or Eman or any other engine:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3600&start=20
If not so clear, a professional program should be ok, stable..
If not I can live with that...because others work fine...
Even with concurrent option: 64

Of course, this is my view...

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botunnet
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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by botunnet » Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:43 pm

Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:57 pm
Really, Eman is designed to be played only with max threads ?
What a joke...))) do you suggest me to play at 256 threads?
Anything more else...?
Open your eyes :shock: it's been years :!:

:lol: 256 threads :lol:

SF-like engines already handles 1024 threads :
Image


(picture from chis) Eman also handles large page, numa, cluster :
Image


Demo of Eman cluster 1536 threads :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4EcRa3_KM


Kevin Eman EXP builder = cluster 300+ cores :
https://cumnor-chess-server.com/phpbb/v ... p=776#p776

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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:00 pm

botunnet wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:43 pm
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:57 pm
Really, Eman is designed to be played only with max threads ?
What a joke...))) do you suggest me to play at 256 threads?
Anything more else...?
Open your eyes :shock: it's been years :!:

:lol: 256 threads :lol:

SF-like engines already handles 1024 threads :
I am really just shocked...
You have to open your eyes..!

Where did you notice that
I stated that Eman is not able to use 256 threads ?

Your English seems to be really bad ...

Btw, are you Deeds ?

Because before banning..
This guy (Deeds) had several accounts on Outskirts...
Last edited by Sedat Canbaz on Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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IbaiBuR
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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by IbaiBuR » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:01 pm

Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:57 pm
deeds wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:47 pm
IbaiBuR wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm
As I said, Eman is not made to be used for concurrency > 1 for training. Hopefully everyone can understand this and stops making tests with concurrency higher than 1 with Eman while training lol
Not everyone unfortunately... But we have a good laugh when with a concurrency=64, daily testers are surprised that it crashes ! Lol
Really, Eman is designed to be played only with max threads ?
What a joke...))) do you suggest me to play at 256 threads?
Anything more else...?

Look...what I can say more,
You do NOT want to replay to my previous questions...
If you are really so good in this area.. if not...
Sad but not my problem!

E.g recently I posted postings to your address,
Where you are refusing to replay... hehe.

In other words,
What kind of man you are...?
Are you experts on comments..or what ?

Btw, regarding BrainLearn or Eman or any other engine:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3600&start=20
If not so clear, a professional program should be ok, stable..
If not I can live with that...because others work fine...
Even with concurrent option: 64

Of course, this is my view...
But Eman is stable, just not designed for concurrency > 1 when training, thats all. The thing is that you cannot use it in concurrency mode because all instances will read / write the same experience file! That will:

- Make the engine perform worse (since the engine will suffer from speed loss probably)
- Corrupt the experience file
- Alter the results of the match since Eman is not being used correctly

Just my humble opinion regarding all this, hope you understand...

Sedat Canbaz
Posts: 1978
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:29 am

Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:05 pm

IbaiBuR wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:01 pm
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:57 pm
deeds wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:47 pm
IbaiBuR wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm
As I said, Eman is not made to be used for concurrency > 1 for training. Hopefully everyone can understand this and stops making tests with concurrency higher than 1 with Eman while training lol
Not everyone unfortunately... But we have a good laugh when with a concurrency=64, daily testers are surprised that it crashes ! Lol
Really, Eman is designed to be played only with max threads ?
What a joke...))) do you suggest me to play at 256 threads?
Anything more else...?

Look...what I can say more,
You do NOT want to replay to my previous questions...
If you are really so good in this area.. if not...
Sad but not my problem!

E.g recently I posted postings to your address,
Where you are refusing to replay... hehe.

In other words,
What kind of man you are...?
Are you experts on comments..or what ?

Btw, regarding BrainLearn or Eman or any other engine:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3600&start=20
If not so clear, a professional program should be ok, stable..
If not I can live with that...because others work fine...
Even with concurrent option: 64

Of course, this is my view...
But Eman is stable, just not designed for concurrency > 1 when training, thats all. The thing is that you cannot use it in concurrency mode because all instances will read / write the same experience file! That will:

- Make the engine perform worse (since the engine will suffer from speed loss probably)
- Corrupt the experience file
- Alter the results of the match since Eman is not being used correctly

Just my humble opinion regarding all this, hope you understand...
Thanks...

I already explained...

Just in case,
I am not going to test Eman with concurrent 64
Because Eman is buggy...

E.g I will test Eman engine with concurrent 32
It seems Eman is stable with lower parallel matches

Greetings

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IbaiBuR
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Re: Eman 9.30 vs Stockfish pre release

Post by IbaiBuR » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:07 pm

I am not going to test Eman with concurrent 64
Because Eman is buggy...

E.g I will test Eman engine with concurrent 32
It seems Eman is stable with lower parallel matches
Still not recommended but ok I guess...

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