A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

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alfons
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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by alfons » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:28 pm

It could depend how the updater is bundled (by Nick Carlin). For instance, if all the updater does is act like a shell, and run a shell script that does "jpatch X Y Z" for each found Rybka 4 executable, then giving a pointer to the jdiff source code could suffice.
You would be half-right, if jdiff/-patch were released under the LGPL - but it isn't, because the one who releases the binary has to provide the source (of the LGPL-software only of course) with the bundle, I think.

And keep in mind, that jdiff etc. doesn't has to be downloaded in the first place (then your argument would apply certainly) - but seems bundled with the updater indeed.

But maybe I'm wrong here...

Hope to hear more from Joris Heirbaut soon.

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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by BB+ » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:41 am

However, my feeling is that a jury might well convict if it was presented with:
1. Evidence that indicates that Vas has a history of copying.
2. Evidence that an enormous increase in strength of the very weak Rybka 1.x series occurred shortly after Fruit was released.
3. The histories and credentials of the signatories of the letter to the ICGA.
4. Well prepared and properly annotated documents that clearly show areas of overlap between Fruit and Rybka and Crafty and Rybka.
First, note that Polish civil courts are almost exclusively "bench trials", so there is no jury (one can also note that there are no "standards of proof" in Polish civil law, and the judge uses whatever he thinks is most reasonable for the case at hand). As noted above, Polish law is perhaps the most stringent in the world regarding copyright, allowing triple damages in some cases, and additionally allowing the plaintiff to require a defendant found guilty of culpable infringement to "donate" not less than twice any damages to a "Creative Fund".

I think #1 and #4 will be the main exhibits for the plaintiff(s). #1 follows quite irrefragably from the Rybka 1.6.1 evidence with Crafty. The fact that Rajlich was "found out" concerning this (rather than making an open admission) is also a factor here. For #4, the "substantial similarity" between the evaluation features Rybka 1.0 Beta and Fruit 2.1 is quite evident. It does not seem to be precisely at the "code" level (even in a transliteration, from what I can tell so far), but it is an almost exact match at the next level of abstraction (see the opinion in the PDF the Jeremy found concerning such abstractions, Section II-D in particular). There is also the fact that evaluation functions even written by the same person (such as Kaufman with Rybka/Komodo and Romstad with Gothmog/Glaurung) tend to have many more differences in features than R1/Fruit. This should all be quantified more for the civil copyright infringement case -- with the ICGA Panel, most programmers (chess and otherwise) already understand these things don't "just happen" accidentally.

I'm not sure which "Rybka 1.x" series is meant in #2. :D Even if the comparison is to the post-Fruit Rybka 1 series, Letouzey has pointed out that he was busy with other (non-strength) features in the second half of 2005, and that Fruit 2.1 was almost a development snapshot, with some room for rather easy Elo gains. For the purposes of damages, it might also become relevant whether most "Rybka 1" subscriptions were sold soon after the Rybka 1.0 Beta release (when the Elo advantage over Fruit 2.1 was not so large), or later in the Rybka 1 schedule (but as I say, Letouzey rejects "strength" as the dominant point, so it would be more of whether later Rybka 1 versions had less copyright infringement).

#3 would probably have its most impact with respect to "credibility" of Rajlich (I think I pointed out previously that a good lawyer could easily make hay of some his more loopy statements over the years, such as not having any back-ups, and his inanity in "node-counting" [particularly claiming that Shredder/Hiarcs might be doing something similar]), though it must be pointed out that many of the 16 signatories probably have not studied the evidence sufficiently closely to sign an affidavit.

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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by BB+ » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:45 am

As a historical example of defamation lawsuits against federations that accuse someone of cheating:
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/02/25/arts/ ... court.html

Katz and Cohen (not the Larry Cohen that is prominent in bridge today, a different one) were accused of cheating in 1977, and their team forfeited the match. They announced a $44 million defamation lawsuit (probably worth 9 figures in today's money), and by 1982 it had finally been settled (the day it was to go to trial), with Katz/Cohen getting about $75K in lawyer fees. So justice is slow and expensive, it appears. :) There was an SI feature on the scandal back in 1977.

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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by BB+ » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:16 pm

There seems to be some question or dispute about what "copyright infringement" means, particularly for computer programs. From Wikipedia, Substantial similarity in copyright infringement:
Striking similarity
Direct evidence of actual copying by a defendant rarely exists, so plaintiffs must often resort to indirectly proving copying.[1] Typically, this is done by first showing that the defendant had access to the plaintiff's work and that the degree of similarity between the two works is so striking or substantial that the similarity could only have been caused by copying, and not, for example, through "coincidence, independent creation, or a prior common source."[7] Some courts also use "probative similarity" to describe this standard. This inquiry is a question of fact determined by a jury.

Courts have relied on several factors to aid in a striking similarity analysis. Among these are:

1. Uniqueness, intricacy, or complexity of the similar sections.
2. If the plaintiff's work contains an unexpected or idiosyncratic element that is repeated in the alleged infringing work.
3. The appearance of the same errors or mistakes in both works.
4. Fictitious entries placed by the plaintiff that appear in the defendant's work. For example, fake names or places are often inserted in factual works like maps or directories to serve as proof of copying in a later infringement case since their appearance in a defendant's work cannot be explained away by innocent causes.
5. Obvious or crude attempts to give the appearance of dissimilarity.[1]
It goes on to explain that the Abstraction Filtration Comparison Test is often used in the specific case of computer programs. I might also note that "reverse engineering" by itself doesn't circumvent the copyright infringement problem, as any re-implementation would also still need to be substantially dissimilar.

MoldyJacket
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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by MoldyJacket » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:35 pm

I do hope Open Source GPL is honored and vigorously defended legally whenever violations are found. Profiteering and closing Open Source stifles the whole premise. Is not enough earned in fame and glory by following GPL and Open Source intent when using it to produce the better mouse trap? And why deny others shoulders to stand on as well?

But it is futile to display some really nice statues in your yard with a “No Trespassing, Beware of Dog” sign when everyone in the neighborhood knows you don’t have or intend to get one. Many jaywalk because it saves time, and will continue to do so until the police issue tickets or someone runs over them with a car.

In the end, all that truly matters with any software are the legal actions taken (or not taken) to protect it, and the outcomes that arise from that. Law can only be applied by judges. If developers are not willing to defend their rights in court, it was really de facto free use code all along anyway.

I posted this link before, but it is probably more appropriate in this thread:
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/
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MoldyJacket
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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by MoldyJacket » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:03 pm

One thing that should not be forgotten, Vas said in a video interview his whole intention from the very beginning was to go commercial (12:06). Hehe, it was such an amateurish infomercial I thought it was an SNL skit outtake! :lol:

The whole dialogue is interesting with the benefit of hindsight, wonder what was left on the cutting room floor as Nelson said it was about 2 ½ hours total raw footage.
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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by BB+ » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:40 am

There has been some suggestion that the ICGA (and presumably others) base any clone/derivative decisions on a standard "copyright infringement" rather than an internal standard of their own, such as "non-originality" or "substantial similarity". Here are a few problems with that:
*) "Copyright infringement" means different things to different people, depending (for instance) on jurisdiction. I would expect that a quite specific description would need be to made (and legal counsel hired to ensure validity therein), which kinda defeats the purpose of appealing to "copyright infringement" in the first place. [The question of whether engine authors would understand something like "copyright infringement" more than "originality" appears debatable to me, as the potential for jaundiced interpretations would seem to be present in either event].
*) "Copyright infringement" in its legal sense brings up the issue of affirmative defenses (such as whether reverse engineering is sufficient to legalise the work), while something like "substantial similarity" does not. Again it is hard for me to think that the ICGA has much specific expertise in software legality per se.
*) Disqualifying someone based upon "copyright infringement" opens the ICGA up to defamation lawsuits (see the ACBL bridge case above in this thread), as it is a declarative statement that can be used for libel purposes. OTOH, disqualifying someone based upon an internal standard as "non-originality" would not be "actionable" (to use the lawyer's term) in the same sense.
*) If the principal condition for entry were that an entry not infringe copyright, any number of Fruit 2.1 or Stockfish 2.0.1 clones/derivatives could enter. Possibly some attestation to "authorship" (as already championed by the ICGA) could de-limit this, though again I'm not sure why one would choose to bind together an ethical condition like "authorship" with a legalistic one like "copyright infringement" in the same ruleset.

In conclusion, while I think "copyright infringement" forms a decent basis and/or analogy for the ICGA concept of originality, I don't think it should be the sole (or over-riding) criterion therein.

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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by BB+ » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:59 am

Forgot one of my points:
*) "Copyright infringement" is somewhat by necessity an inferred offense (you usually don't see someone doing the copying), and thus (at law) has a lessened expectation in any proof of such an offense. Contrariwise, a standard based on "originality" would be more amicable toward findings "beyond a reasonable doubt" in some instances.

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Re: A lawyer on the GPL and Fruit/Rybka

Post by MoldyJacket » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:18 pm

What I gather from this and other posts I’ve seen, it sounds like the ICGA is in reality struggling with what they are, and what they want to be.
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