Suggestion thread for TCEC
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:15 pm
In this thread, which should ideally have been just in the TCEC subforum and not in the season 8 sub-subforum, I invite everyone to share their suggestions for TCEC, for season 8 or for future seasons if impossible to implement mid-season. To post such suggestions in a permanent medium like a forum should prove superior to posting it in the Chatwing chat.
Now to one suggestion I have for Martin and TCEC for season 9. We have already seen some very interesting endings this season. Some of them have unfortunately, in my opinion, been adjudicated when five pieces remained. One of these is the KBBKN ending from Gull-Hannibal (game 12 of stage 3), where Gull would only win within the 50 moves rule by three plies with perfect play. This is one of the situation where two engines without tablebases could have produced an interesting endgame lesson, which I believe many would have enjoyed watching.
Here are some other examples of endings which I would like to see "played through", i.e. converted, in TCEC:
(KQKR) - interesting for humans, and some weeker engines might fail to win, especially against a tablebase-equipped defender
(KQKRP)
KQPKQ - often almost impossible to play perfectly, even for strong engines, without tablebases
KQNKQ - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KQBKQ - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KRPKR - in some special cases difficult (but possible) to win or defend
KRBKR - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KRNKR - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KBPKB - long and difficult wins are few and far between for engines, but this should still be an exception both for those cases and for the often still instructive value of this endgame in the simpler cases
KNPKN - long and difficult wins are few and far between for engines, but this should still be an exception both for those cases and for the often still instructive value of this endgame in the simpler cases
KBPKN - in some cases instructive to see converted
KNPKB - in some cases instructive to see converted
KNNKP - often, not always (but then sometimes difficult to draw), a win disregarding the 50 moves rule. Sometimes a win, sometimes a draw, under FIDE rules; obviously, extremely precise play is often required to convert within the 50 moves rule.
KPPKP - can transpose into one of the above-mentioned endings
There are even some extremely exceptional cases in addition to these, which I don't mention (like the longest win of KBNKN). My primary suggestion is this: Replace 5 piece adjudication with 4 piece adjudication, possibly with an exception for the KQKR ending. A secondary suggestion is to use the list above, a solution which is good but not perfect (there will always be some extremely exceptional cases in addition which one would have liked to include but would make the list much longer and further reduce the point of even having a 5 piece adjudication instead of 4).
Now to one suggestion I have for Martin and TCEC for season 9. We have already seen some very interesting endings this season. Some of them have unfortunately, in my opinion, been adjudicated when five pieces remained. One of these is the KBBKN ending from Gull-Hannibal (game 12 of stage 3), where Gull would only win within the 50 moves rule by three plies with perfect play. This is one of the situation where two engines without tablebases could have produced an interesting endgame lesson, which I believe many would have enjoyed watching.
Here are some other examples of endings which I would like to see "played through", i.e. converted, in TCEC:
(KQKR) - interesting for humans, and some weeker engines might fail to win, especially against a tablebase-equipped defender
(KQKRP)
KQPKQ - often almost impossible to play perfectly, even for strong engines, without tablebases
KQNKQ - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KQBKQ - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KRPKR - in some special cases difficult (but possible) to win or defend
KRBKR - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KRNKR - a win or a difficult-to-defend draw in some exceptional situations (general result: draw)
KBPKB - long and difficult wins are few and far between for engines, but this should still be an exception both for those cases and for the often still instructive value of this endgame in the simpler cases
KNPKN - long and difficult wins are few and far between for engines, but this should still be an exception both for those cases and for the often still instructive value of this endgame in the simpler cases
KBPKN - in some cases instructive to see converted
KNPKB - in some cases instructive to see converted
KNNKP - often, not always (but then sometimes difficult to draw), a win disregarding the 50 moves rule. Sometimes a win, sometimes a draw, under FIDE rules; obviously, extremely precise play is often required to convert within the 50 moves rule.
KPPKP - can transpose into one of the above-mentioned endings
There are even some extremely exceptional cases in addition to these, which I don't mention (like the longest win of KBNKN). My primary suggestion is this: Replace 5 piece adjudication with 4 piece adjudication, possibly with an exception for the KQKR ending. A secondary suggestion is to use the list above, a solution which is good but not perfect (there will always be some extremely exceptional cases in addition which one would have liked to include but would make the list much longer and further reduce the point of even having a 5 piece adjudication instead of 4).